I am not going to defend a woman that doesn't say thank you but I am just going to put out to you a thought process that might b in the girl or woman's head.
It could be that she is thinking and I'm not saying that it is the right way to think but possibly she could be thinking that if she thanks the guy for this and for that he might get the wrong idea that she really likes him and she would be interested in a second date when she is really not interested and wouldn't want to raise the guys hopes up falsely.
I would be curious to know that if someone did not thank the guy for the drink or food on the first date if she really expected him to take her out again?
That would certainly seem to me that the girl is lacking in middos.
I don't think the girls should thank the guy just for taking her out on a date because she is also investing time and effort and that's the idea of the date.
However if the guy had to borrow a car or had a lot of expenses on tolls etc or had to come from far away to meet her even if he came by train(not expensive) and let's say they took a car service together somewhere then she should definitely thank him and appreciate that they went by car or for the effort that he took to come and meet her.She also should also thank him for the cup of coffee or whatever he buys her to eat.
I know this might sound old fashioned because I went out on dates before it was married over 40 something years ago but I had one guy remember that said he wanted to go dutch. I was a little bit taken aback by that because I did not expect it.
Nowadays I think it wouldn't be too much to ask at least for the first date if the girl wants to go to a restaurant that they should each pay for their own expenses.
I know that most people would not agree with this and the girl would probably think right away that the guy is a cheapskate like I thought about my date over 40 years ago. But I would be curious if you would throw that out to your readers what their comments would be.
I appreciate your thoughtful comments. The thought process you presented is a very weak excuse. Treating your date with basic politeness should not be taken as a sign that you want to marry him, any more than being polite to the bus driver, waiter, etc. should be taken as flirtation. Girls are taught to be super polite to the latter because this is good "middos" (and if they are in galus and they are being polite to goyim, maybe one day they will send you to the right instead of the left), but they shouldn't be polite to a fellow Jew who is trying earnestly to get married, and paying to take her out, even if she doesn't want to be the one to marry him? Sorry, but that is inexcusable.
A guy should appreciate a woman for investing in the date as well to the extent that she does. But if she cannot even crack a smile and treat him with decency, there is something terribly lacking in her middos and education.
Women who are "liberated" and demand "equality" should not also expect a man to wine and dine them. You can't have it both ways.
"because she is also investing time and effort" It's not even close. In my dating, I did 75% of the work, at least. I'm making the first call and the pressure is on me to catch her when she's in. Then I have to manage most of the conversation and make sure it's just the exact right length. I have to ask her out. In NY, I drove at least an hour each way for every date, sometimes 2- 3 hours. I had to be sure to leave time to arrive on time. This was before GPS, so I had to get out maps oftentimes to plan out the trip. I had to plan out activities that were in her locale. On the date itself, I'm driving, parking, making sure I don't get lost. I'm dealing with the pressure of hoping she is satisfied with where I take her. Then on the date, I'm responding to the interrogation, proving I'm worthy and safe. The reverse didn't happen. I wouldn't be so rude and it wouldn't be accepted for a man to do that. I spent typically $100 a date, 25 years ago. That's what dinner, parking, gas, and tolls cost. Plus the cost of maintaining a car. After the date, if she deigns to go out with me again, I have to make every phone call. And I can't call too often or not often enough. Each woman, has the exact rate that she wants. The men do the lion's share of the work. The women can at least say thank you. I logged my dating in a spreadsheet. Around 15% said thank you, and usually it was the baalas teshuvah who did.
Very well said. You're the second person who replied to be that it was mostly the baalos teshuva who thanked their date. I guess there's a learning curve...
Rav Weissman ,
I am not going to defend a woman that doesn't say thank you but I am just going to put out to you a thought process that might b in the girl or woman's head.
It could be that she is thinking and I'm not saying that it is the right way to think but possibly she could be thinking that if she thanks the guy for this and for that he might get the wrong idea that she really likes him and she would be interested in a second date when she is really not interested and wouldn't want to raise the guys hopes up falsely.
I would be curious to know that if someone did not thank the guy for the drink or food on the first date if she really expected him to take her out again?
That would certainly seem to me that the girl is lacking in middos.
I don't think the girls should thank the guy just for taking her out on a date because she is also investing time and effort and that's the idea of the date.
However if the guy had to borrow a car or had a lot of expenses on tolls etc or had to come from far away to meet her even if he came by train(not expensive) and let's say they took a car service together somewhere then she should definitely thank him and appreciate that they went by car or for the effort that he took to come and meet her.She also should also thank him for the cup of coffee or whatever he buys her to eat.
I know this might sound old fashioned because I went out on dates before it was married over 40 something years ago but I had one guy remember that said he wanted to go dutch. I was a little bit taken aback by that because I did not expect it.
Nowadays I think it wouldn't be too much to ask at least for the first date if the girl wants to go to a restaurant that they should each pay for their own expenses.
I know that most people would not agree with this and the girl would probably think right away that the guy is a cheapskate like I thought about my date over 40 years ago. But I would be curious if you would throw that out to your readers what their comments would be.
I appreciate your thoughtful comments. The thought process you presented is a very weak excuse. Treating your date with basic politeness should not be taken as a sign that you want to marry him, any more than being polite to the bus driver, waiter, etc. should be taken as flirtation. Girls are taught to be super polite to the latter because this is good "middos" (and if they are in galus and they are being polite to goyim, maybe one day they will send you to the right instead of the left), but they shouldn't be polite to a fellow Jew who is trying earnestly to get married, and paying to take her out, even if she doesn't want to be the one to marry him? Sorry, but that is inexcusable.
A guy should appreciate a woman for investing in the date as well to the extent that she does. But if she cannot even crack a smile and treat him with decency, there is something terribly lacking in her middos and education.
Women who are "liberated" and demand "equality" should not also expect a man to wine and dine them. You can't have it both ways.
"because she is also investing time and effort" It's not even close. In my dating, I did 75% of the work, at least. I'm making the first call and the pressure is on me to catch her when she's in. Then I have to manage most of the conversation and make sure it's just the exact right length. I have to ask her out. In NY, I drove at least an hour each way for every date, sometimes 2- 3 hours. I had to be sure to leave time to arrive on time. This was before GPS, so I had to get out maps oftentimes to plan out the trip. I had to plan out activities that were in her locale. On the date itself, I'm driving, parking, making sure I don't get lost. I'm dealing with the pressure of hoping she is satisfied with where I take her. Then on the date, I'm responding to the interrogation, proving I'm worthy and safe. The reverse didn't happen. I wouldn't be so rude and it wouldn't be accepted for a man to do that. I spent typically $100 a date, 25 years ago. That's what dinner, parking, gas, and tolls cost. Plus the cost of maintaining a car. After the date, if she deigns to go out with me again, I have to make every phone call. And I can't call too often or not often enough. Each woman, has the exact rate that she wants. The men do the lion's share of the work. The women can at least say thank you. I logged my dating in a spreadsheet. Around 15% said thank you, and usually it was the baalas teshuvah who did.
Very well said. You're the second person who replied to be that it was mostly the baalos teshuva who thanked their date. I guess there's a learning curve...